Fight back!

The normal 'wisdom' has been to break off communications with the scammers as soon as you learn what they are.  However, that plays directly to their benefit as it frees up their time to devote to scamming the innocent victims.

We suggest that once you recognize the scam,  go ahead and communicate with them.   In fact we suggest that you go ahead and go along with the scam and let them send the counterfeit to you.  *Normally* the counterfeit arrives via UPS or FedEx 'overnight' express and that costs the scammer or the assistant about $30!  This is one way you can 'punish' them by hitting them in the pocket.  They are outside the laws of the US.   The police are not going to get them.  They are small potatoes to the US government. It falls back to those of us who are directly affected by them.

To get rid of them simply ask them to send you a deposit to hold the hay (of $25 to $50) by using Paypal or even $1 to verify that they are who they say they are.

Call them a Scammer and tell them to find honest work and leave us alone.  Tell them the message is bugged and the government is tracking it.  A little dose of Paranoia is wonderful.

Send the scam messages to us so we can get it posted to help prevent others from falling for the scam.

However, If you want to have some 'scammer fun'.....  First contact us and we will give you the tools to find the country of origin of most of the scam messages so you will feel comfortable in scamming the scammers. Some of the current scams are very slick and smoothly worded,  however, if the message comes from Nigeria, they are not looking for your baled hay!.

Answer EVERY hay scam that comes in. Waste their time.  Use as few words as possible so you are not wasting YOUR time.

Go to Gmail, Yahoo, or Hotmail and get a free account (or 2 or 3...) and reply to the scammer using a different name and e-mail address.  Waste their time.

Reply back to them and remove the subject line and the quoted text EVERY TIME you communicate with them. Make them search their files to see what the message is about.   Ask them questions.  When they don't answer a straight question, keep on asking. Waste their time!

Eventually they will want a name, phone number and address to send the counterfeit check to.  Make up a business name or use your own name (contact us for more on this), give them your address and a phony telephone number or say your phone is unlisted and you don't want any calls since you work late, etc.. (We can give you tools to find phone numbers that do not answer.)

Or give them a bogus address to send the checks.  NOTE: some scammers will check the address to make sure that UPS can delivery.

Search the phone book for the address of someone who might appreciate getting a counterfeit check (?law enforcement?), to use with the free e-mail accounts.   Eventually the scammer will begin to recognize your real address and stop sending the counterfeit checks to you.  Do you have friends that travel across the country in RVs?  They will have many addresses where the scammer can send the counterfeits! Bring traveling salesmen into the fun so they can pick up a counterfeit at each place they regularly stay. Be creative. Anyone who has an address that UPS can deliver to, and is in on the game can play along!   Remember the scammer is in Nigeria and hasn't got a clue where a town is located or who lives there. 

Tell the scammer the address is for your office, or the accountant, etc.  Ask them to include an invoice with the check so "the book-keeper will know where to put the money or how to split the fees", etc.  They NEVER include anything other than the counterfeit.  When the check arrives, ask the scammer if they included the invoice since the check has gotten "lost" since you get tons of checks every day.  Ask the scammer to send you another check  After a few days, become indignate and berate the scammer by saying the bank has called and says the check is no good!  It's A COUNTERFEIT !!!

When the check comes, DO NOT DEPOSITE IT. Most of the time the check is drawn on an innocent person's bank account (most likely they get the bank numbers by "Phishing")   You can check the tracking number on the UPS or FedEx package containing the counterfeit and use that number to see where the package started from.  It will not be from the address printed on the counterfeit check. 

If you are using a free e-mail account and a false address for the counterfeit delivery, simply close the e-mail account and forget about the scammer and the counterfeit that will go bouncing around the country trying to find the fake person and address. Often the UPS tracking number supplied by the scammer will show the counterfeit going back to someone at a totally different city than it was sent from. Let us know where the package ends up.  Open another e-mail address and do it to them again!

For hard core 'scammer fun', rent a mail box at someplace like "the UPS store" or a neighborhood shopping center that will accept delivery of a UPS package and continue to collect the counterfeits. When the scammer finally stops sending to that address, close that mail and open another one somewhere else.  RV travelers often need an 'official' address that does not change and a mail box for important mail. There are several businesses around the US that will collect your mail and send it to you. For about $5 per month you can get an address and have the 'mail' re-shipped to you.   Google it!

To put a dent in the scammer's business, make a zerox of the check and mail it to the name and address shown on the counterfeit check to alert the person that a scammer has gotten their banking numbers. The quicker that person can close the account the quicker other counterfeit checks (drawn on that account) will bounce and possibly save someone else from getting burned because their 'hay check' does not clear.

Check the bank routing numbers on the counterfeit check (contact us for how) and send an e-mail to the issuing bank (or mail them a xerox copy) alerting them to the counterfeit scam and ask them to notify their account holder.

Just before or very shortly after the counterfeit arrives, the scammer will send you a message telling you where to wire the money (examples) .  Do not deposit the check when it arrives.  Most of them are very good counterfeits and most banks will accept them without a second glance unless you ask them to check the details.  After a few days, become indignate and berate the scammer by saying the bank has called and says the check is no good!   It's A COUNTERFEIT !!!

You can send the "hauler" contact information to us so we can post it and it will be available (by Googling) to possibly  prevent another victim from falling for the scam.  You can send the "hauler's" county Sherrif an e-mail alerting them to the scam.  You can do a people search and often find a phone number for the "hauler".  Call them and ask them how they got the job and what size truck they are bringing <grin>.

Recognize that the scam is all about the trap of depositing the check and wiring the money to the scammer's assistant.  Do not deposit the check!  Do NOT wire money to anyone!

Glue a collection of counterfeit checks on a poster or Epoxy a collection onto a Lamp..   Mount the counterfeit checks on your scammer wall.  Show the collection to the local bank so they can educate their tellers. 

The scammers are in Nigeria.  Most will have someone in the US that picks up the wired money and wires it out of the country.  Most will have someone in the US that sends out the counterfeits.  This may or may not be the same person.  No matter, the scammer that you talk to will mostly be in Nigeria,  or England, (note that some Nigerian scammers scam while on vacation as they travel back and forth to other countries).

If the scammer waits until the check is being delivered to tell you that you will need to send money to the 'hauler', the simplest way to deal with the situation is to say "NO! I will not wire money!  I am going to return the check to you. YOU pay the hauler.  You DO want it back, don't you?  Tell me where to send the check!".  They do not want the check returned and will plead with you to deposit the check.  Hold your ground and ask for a postal address to return the check to. Say that you will send it to the nearest police office for safely so they can pick it up there. You will not get a postal address since that would put the bulls-eye on who ever picks it up.

Contact us and we'll share tools for "scam the scammer" fun.

The scammer has to have valid bank account numbers to print on the counterfeit checks. The scam works because 1 or 2 months or more can elapse before the counterfeit check shows up in someone's bank statement and they challenge it, which then starts the 'bounced check' .  If the bank numbers are wrong, the counterfeit will bounce too fast and this can alert the victim and stop the scam.  We are now looking at "Phishing" as the source of those account numbers on the counterfeit checks and are looking at ways to possibly feed false information to the "Phishing" scammers.  If they get false information then counterfeit checks would 'bounce' faster or possibly not even get out of the deposite bank before throwing a red flag thus saving someone from the scam.

Please share your own tools and success stories with us. 

Think about this,  if half of all the people who receive the initial scam message did reply and were to go along and end up costing the scammer or assistant $30 for each person.... that's a pile of money out of the scammer's pocket!

And what if some of those people scam the scammer by hitting him from several e-addys, all at the same time?  <grin>  Maybe the scammers would eventually get the message and leave the hay producers alone!

www.hay-scams.com